Ask Dini
 

Home
Up

 

Cleanie Questions

 

Marc Writes:

Hi

 
Having looked through your website, I'm after some advice please.  Some of the boats I look after are beginning to get yellow streaks and patches on the superstructure.  Weekly, I 'wash and wax' them (a combined solution)...could this be the problem. Goclean.com says wax seals the surface rather than coats it, not allowing it to breath which results in yellowing. Do you agree? Are there 'wash and wax ' products that won't cause this? Could I simply be applying too much solution too often? Should I just use a wash without wax - if so won't the surface be left under-protected? 
 
Also, how can I get rid of the yellowing already there - have tried Y10 stain removing gel, and even some vigorous compounding.
 
Any advice gratefully received!!
 
Marc (Poole, England) 

 

Marc,
I am so glad to have an international reader!
I am not sure if this is the problem but here is my best, I tend to be rather long winded about cleaning so excuse the length.
 
I am assuming you are talking about fiberglass boats. Most gelcoats are white on fiberglass boats. The yellowing you see is due to a combination of filth building up on the surface coupled with a wax being applied over the filth giving it a yellowish tint. First, if you simply wax a white boat with a high quality carnauba wax over and over again until your arm falls off you will find that the wax will build up. Carnauba wax is naturally slightly yellow, you will see a yellow tint. To solve this all you need to do is use a relatively stiff polish or light compound which will do a number of things. First, it will remove wax buildup. Second and more importantly, it will clean the surface. As fiberglass gets old it oxidizes which exposes the pigment that makes up gelcoat as the hardened resin deteriorates. That rough surface tends to pick up dirt and wax and further make your yellowing problem worse. By going over with a good polish. Like a 3M Perfect-It-III Compound or Presta Ultra Cutting Crème Light should do the job when applied by a rotary polisher with a nice old wool polishing pad.
The yellowing could be almost anything but every once in a while you need to break down and polish the boat. The yellowing could even come from the water the boat is in, the water you are using to wash or the soap solution you are using. If that gelcoat is porous then almost anything with stain it.
 
I hope this helped. Please ask any questions and send along any comments on how I can improve the site.
 
PS I am in the market for a double decker bus, have any suggestions?
 
DINI

 

 

 


Bradley Writes:

Dini,

I take care of a Farr 40 racing sailboat with refinished non-skid, as much as we and other boaters try to get people to wear non-marking shoes, it still happens black scuffs in the non-skid, I try and scrub the boat to “Cleanie” standards, however I have trouble getting these black shoe marks to come off the deck with a hard deck brush and soap…please help.

Thanks,
Bradley

Bradley,
As you said the non-skid on most of your boats has been repainted with added nonskid grit for added grip, so you can deal with your problem a few ways. First, get a big "Cleanie Stick" and use it as a deterrent method for those that get lax in your boat shoe policy. Second, on most boats you can get a majority of stains out with a rubbing compound. If you read my article
http://www.cleaniedini.com/Powerboat_2004.htm#August Which could possibly shed some light on the on the topic. The only thing you need to worry about when using a rubbing compound to get nonskid stains out is that the compound doesn't leave unsightly residue in the nonskid. This can be avoided by using similar color compound. AKA, white 3M Perfect-IT III Extra Cutting Compound on a white non-skid. Hope this helps.

DINI


 

Wes writes:

Constantine, Thank you very much for your quick reply.

It almost sounds like what Driven to Perfection is calling a polish is really a wax as they claim it has no abrasives and, according to the company President, they don’t recommend a protective wax treatment after applying their polish. By definition, can a polish not have abrasives and still remove light oxidation and surface contaminates? And can a polish have the same protective qualities of a wax, therefore eliminating the need for a separate wax application?

Dini writes:
There is a fine line between what some call a polish and others call a protectant. I have made a line in the sand in which many may not agree with. I say that a polish is a light abrasive, a compound is a harsh abrasive and a protectant is something that inhibits oxidation. With a polish I also include mild chemical cleaners that do the same work as a mild abrasive but are not actually containing an aluminum oxide abrasive that will mechanically remove oxidation, instead many chemical cleaners will do the same job of cleaning the surface of oxidation and surface contaminants but with a chemical type cleaner. Other people do not feel like calling things the same as me and frankly I think it adds to the confusion in the industry, that may be part of the overall plan also to get you to purchase more products from them. Yes, a polish can contain products that I consider protectants like carnauba wax and polymer protectants as well as these cleaners we have spoke about. You may also see products like this called cleaner wax, or cleaner protectant. 3M combines an compound and a wax together to make a restorer wax for oxidized fiberglass. I have spoken with the owner of Driven and upon my return from Antarctica I will be doing a comprehensive test of his products. Many times the word polish is thrown around quite liberally. Meguiar's considers a polish something with a light abrasive that also as conditioning agents to "feed" the surface in which you are polishing. 3M made a great Liquid Polish but took it off the market and replaced it with a Hand Glaze and Machine Glaze. I am sorry that I don't have more
information online about this and now that I understand it is an area of question I will be sure to update the site as soon as I am able.

Wes:
You recommended the 3M Ultra Performance Paste Wax and 3M Hand Glaze which I believe Howard Boats uses. Does 3M make an equivalent liquid wax to their paste wax, or does the additional effort of hand-applying paste wax result in such a noticeably superior appearance as to negate the relative ease of` hand-applying liquid wax? I’m assuming applying the 3M Hand Glaze with a random orbital polisher is preferred over applying the polish by hand.

Dini:
3M's UPPW is great, they make a liquid wax that holds many of the same properties but the ease of application is not the same, plus it really doesn't smell good and has a tendency to look splotchy if used on paint. I would suggest Collinite #925 Fiberglass Boat Wax because it is just a great product and represents the older tried and true technology. It is easy to apply, smells nice, and produces a great shine on new or like new gel-coat. Another great liquid wax is made by Hammerhead Boat Works called Waxing Frenzy! This product contains a chemical agent that cleans the surface of any previous wax that has been applied as well as light oxidation and again is a great new product on the market with the latest polymer type protectants and such. As far as ease of application of a past compared to liquid it really depends, it truly isn't that much more elbow grease with the 3M UPPW over most liquid waxes. On a new boat you will not have any problem. On older oxidized boats you will notice that almost all wax is impossible to remove because the wax will be absorbed into the oxidation and you will continue to see splotchy areas where the wax was as well as colors if the wax was colored. On your new boat you will notice most things will not do this and you can use almost any product including automotive waxes with little problem. Meguiar's has made a Marine Spray Wax that will help you keep parts of your boat waxed that get a lot of abuse. It sprays on and all you do is smear it around with one side of a rag then wipe it off with the other. It is very quick and easy and will afford you protection from stains and such on new fiberglass. As far as a random orbital polisher goes there are a number that are on the market but only a few that are worth spending your money on. The Porter Cable as well as the Cyclo are both exceptional machines. For your boat I don't think you would even need one until it starts getting older and you need to use light compounds. Right now you want to avoid any compounds that may scratch your gel-coat because you are giving dirt and filth a place to cling onto as well as making the surface look bad when the sun reflects on it, you know swirl marks.

Wes:
Lastly, do you have any recommendations for protecting and preserving my anodized aluminum hardware? No salt water use, but the Colorado River water is very hard and waterspots are terrible.

Dini:
In the salt water I have always used Woody Wax on anodized aluminum. In fresh water I would suspect that it would do even better. Woody Wax is amazing stuff that truly is good for anything. I use it in all my automotive fuse boxes because it keeps moisture out as well as lubricates electrical connections. I have waxes entire boats with woody wax as well as being one of two waxes designed for use on nonskid. It can be used on almost any metal with great results. Because the anodized aluminum gets really beat up in the salt Woody suggests using brass wool (like steel wool) to remove the mineral deposits. This also may be necessary with the minerals you deal with. May want to make up a spray bottle of vinegar and water to help break down the minerals. Again that Boat Wax Plus is designed mainly for boats in fresh water use on the Colorado River because of the problem that came about because of the hard water spots so before mixing up your own brew of vinegar it may prove cost effective to try out their spray that not only breaks down minerals but also protects with what they call a Co-Polymer. Good luck with everything and hope to hear how things go!

Thanks for all of your help and have a fabulous time in Antarctica- the adventure of a lifetime!

Wes

 


Dear Dini,

Do you sell Presta Products? I am interested in Presta's 1500 Polish and whatever you suggest to follow it up with. I have a 22ft cobalt 223 that is just slightly oxidized. I am thinking of using an orbital polisher. Can you suggest a good one?.

                                                            Thanks,

                                                                           Chris Deal

By the way, saw your article in Power Boat Magazine. Very Helpful.

 

 

 

Chris,

I do not sell Presta. I guess the way I speak so highly about it you would think so but the product is just something better than what is out there now. You can get Presta Products from the factory by emailing prestainfo@malcopro.com or call 800-860-4488. I believe that is the number where you can access orders. Please let me know if that doesn't work and I will make sure that someone from sales gives you a call.
The 1500 polish is great with a rotary polisher and the Presta pad. If you get Powerboat in May it tells you about the machines used. Using the 1500 polish with a random orbital will take a long time if you have a lot of oxidation. A good way to gauge how much oxidation you have is to take a ruler and hold it up so you can see its reflection. If you can see the reflection that is good. The more inches you can read in the reflection the less oxidation you have. New boats may be 12 inches and light oxidation may be 4 inches. This varies with different finishes and light conditions and it has been a long time since i have done this. But if you can't read over 4 inches i would think about going to a polish with a little more bite or a light compound. Presta also makes an Ultra Cutting Crème Light which I have had luck with other than the fact that it tends to gum up rotary polish pads. The harsher compound will make the orbital action more effective and will clear up the finish quite a bit. But, like I always say, error on the side of a lesser abrasive. I have attached a picture of a sail boat i tested Ultra Cutting Crème Light on. You can see in the reflection where I stopped and you can see how clear the reflection is where I did polish.
The best random orbital polisher money can buy is the the Porter-Cable. You can get them on line at almost any tool site. They have a variable speed and they are built for a lifetime. You would need pads also and they can be obtained from http://www.griotsgarage.com/index.jsp
For that polisher you must make sure it comes with, or get a "Velcro" type backup pad so you can just stick on your pads. If you decide to get another random orbital polisher they may last a year or two. I have gone through dozens of them. They burn out or worse, fly apart. Polishes work differently on every boat but one thing you can be sure of is that this polisher is good for your boat, car, metals and even bathroom tubs and sinks.
Sorry that was long. If you have any other questions please ask! When you order your polish I would order the 8 oz samples because of their low cost and when you find something that works order the 32 oz because this polish is professional and made to the highest standards in the industry = slightly higher price. Thank you for your email and I hope it was helpful. Please let me know any other problems

                                                                                                                                Dini

 

Send mail to dini@cleaniedini.com with your questions and comments
Copyright © 2006 Cleanie Dini Testing and Reports
Last modified: 01/20/2007

   

This website and product reports are opinions only, they are not intended to rate products for use on all boats and all information on the site should be used at your own risk. Cleanie Dini Testing and Reports as well as Constantine Macris and all associates disclaim any and all responsibility for the accuracy, timeliness, and completeness of the information on this site. Cleanie Dini Testing and Reports as well as Constantine Macris and all associates are not responsible for any loss or damage suffered by you or anyone else in connection with this web site or the information contained in it.