Cleanie Questions
Having looked through
your website, I'm after some advice please. Some of the boats I look
after are beginning to get yellow streaks and patches on the
superstructure. Weekly, I 'wash and wax' them (a combined
solution)...could this be the problem. Goclean.com says wax seals the
surface rather than coats it, not allowing it to breath which results in
yellowing. Do you agree? Are there 'wash and wax ' products that won't
cause this? Could I simply be applying too much solution too often?
Should I just use a wash without wax - if so won't the surface be left
under-protected?
Also, how can I get
rid of the yellowing already there - have tried Y10 stain removing gel,
and even some vigorous compounding.
Any advice gratefully
received!!
Marc (Poole, England)
Marc,
I am so glad to have an international reader!
I am not sure if this is the problem but here
is my best, I tend to be rather long winded about cleaning so excuse the
length.
I am assuming you are talking about
fiberglass boats. Most gelcoats are white on fiberglass boats. The yellowing
you see is due to a combination of filth building up on the surface coupled
with a wax being applied over the filth giving it a yellowish tint. First,
if you simply wax a white boat with a high quality carnauba wax over and
over again until your arm falls off you will find that the wax will build
up. Carnauba wax is naturally slightly yellow, you will see a yellow tint.
To solve this all you need to do is use a relatively stiff polish or light
compound which will do a number of things. First, it will remove wax
buildup. Second and more importantly, it will clean the surface. As
fiberglass gets old it oxidizes which exposes the pigment that makes up
gelcoat as the hardened resin deteriorates. That rough surface tends to pick
up dirt and wax and further make your yellowing problem worse. By going over
with a good polish. Like a 3M Perfect-It-III Compound or Presta Ultra
Cutting Crème Light should do the job when applied by a rotary polisher with
a nice old wool polishing pad.
The yellowing could be almost anything but
every once in a while you need to break down and polish the boat. The
yellowing could even come from the water the boat is in, the water you are
using to wash or the soap solution you are using. If that gelcoat is porous
then almost anything with stain it.
I hope this helped. Please ask any questions
and send along any comments on how I can improve the site.
PS I am in the market for a double decker
bus, have any suggestions?
DINI
Bradley Writes:
Dini,
I take care of a Farr 40
racing sailboat with refinished non-skid, as much as we and other boaters try to
get people to wear non-marking shoes, it still happens black scuffs in the
non-skid, I try and scrub the boat to “Cleanie” standards, however I have
trouble getting these black shoe marks to come off the deck with a hard deck
brush and soap…please help.
Thanks,
Bradley
Bradley,
As you said the non-skid on most of your boats has been repainted with added
nonskid grit for added grip, so you can deal with your problem a few ways.
First, get a big "Cleanie Stick" and use it as a deterrent method for those that
get lax in your boat shoe policy. Second, on most boats you can get a majority
of stains out with a rubbing compound. If you read my article
http://www.cleaniedini.com/Powerboat_2004.htm#August Which could
possibly shed some light on the on the topic. The only thing you need to worry
about when using a rubbing compound to get nonskid stains out is that the
compound doesn't leave unsightly residue in the nonskid. This can be avoided by
using similar color compound. AKA, white 3M Perfect-IT III Extra Cutting
Compound on a white non-skid. Hope this helps.
DINI
Wes writes:
Constantine, Thank you very much for your quick
reply.
It almost sounds like what Driven to Perfection
is calling a polish is really a wax as they claim it has no abrasives and,
according to the company President, they don’t recommend a protective wax
treatment after applying their polish. By definition, can a polish not have
abrasives and still remove light oxidation and surface contaminates? And can a
polish have the same protective qualities of a wax, therefore eliminating the
need for a separate wax application?
Dini writes:
There is a fine line between what some call a polish and others call a
protectant. I have made a line in the sand in which many may not agree with. I
say that a polish is a light abrasive, a compound is a harsh abrasive and a
protectant is something that inhibits oxidation. With a polish I also include
mild chemical cleaners that do the same work as a mild abrasive but are not
actually containing an aluminum oxide abrasive that will mechanically remove
oxidation, instead many chemical cleaners will do the same job of cleaning the
surface of oxidation and surface contaminants but with a chemical type cleaner.
Other people do not feel like calling things the same as me and frankly I think
it adds to the confusion in the industry, that may be part of the overall plan
also to get you to purchase more products from them. Yes, a polish can contain
products that I consider protectants like carnauba wax and polymer protectants
as well as these cleaners we have spoke about. You may also see products like
this called cleaner wax, or cleaner protectant. 3M combines an compound and a
wax together to make a restorer wax for oxidized fiberglass. I have spoken with
the owner of Driven and upon my return from Antarctica I will be doing a
comprehensive test of his products. Many times the word polish is thrown around
quite liberally. Meguiar's considers a polish something with a light abrasive
that also as conditioning agents to "feed" the surface in which you are
polishing. 3M made a great Liquid Polish but took it off the market and replaced
it with a Hand Glaze and Machine Glaze. I am sorry that I don't have more
information
online about this and now that I
understand it is an area of question I will be sure to update the site as soon
as I am able.
Wes:
You recommended the 3M Ultra Performance Paste Wax and 3M Hand Glaze which I
believe Howard Boats uses. Does 3M make an equivalent liquid wax to their paste
wax, or does the additional effort of hand-applying paste wax result in such a
noticeably superior appearance as to negate the relative ease of` hand-applying
liquid wax? I’m assuming applying the 3M Hand Glaze with a random orbital
polisher is preferred over applying the polish by hand.
Dini:
3M's UPPW is great, they make a liquid wax that holds many of the same
properties but the ease of application is not the same, plus it really doesn't
smell good and has a tendency to look splotchy if used on paint. I would suggest
Collinite #925 Fiberglass Boat Wax because it is just a great product and
represents the older tried and true technology. It is easy to apply, smells
nice, and produces a great shine on new or like new gel-coat. Another great
liquid wax is made by Hammerhead Boat Works called Waxing Frenzy! This product
contains a chemical agent that cleans the surface of any previous wax that has
been applied as well as light oxidation and again is a great new product on the
market with the latest polymer type protectants and such. As far as ease of
application of a past compared to liquid it really depends, it truly isn't that
much more elbow grease with the 3M UPPW over most liquid waxes. On a new boat
you will not have any problem. On older oxidized boats you will notice that
almost all wax is impossible to remove because the wax will be absorbed into the
oxidation and you will continue to see splotchy areas where the wax was as well
as colors if the wax was colored. On your new boat you will notice most things
will not do this and you can use almost any product including automotive waxes
with little problem. Meguiar's has made a Marine Spray Wax that will help you
keep parts of your boat waxed that get a lot of abuse. It sprays on and all you
do is smear it around with one side of a rag then wipe it off with the other. It
is very quick and easy and will afford you protection from stains and such on
new fiberglass. As far as a random orbital polisher goes there are a number that
are on the market but only a few that are worth spending your money on. The
Porter Cable as well as the Cyclo are both exceptional machines. For your boat I
don't think you would even need one until it starts getting older and you need
to use light compounds. Right now you want to avoid any compounds that may
scratch your gel-coat because you are giving dirt and filth a place to cling
onto as well as making the surface look bad when the sun reflects on it, you
know swirl marks.
Wes:
Lastly, do you have any recommendations for protecting and preserving my
anodized aluminum hardware? No salt water use, but the Colorado River water is
very hard and waterspots are terrible.
Dini:
In the salt water I have always used Woody Wax on anodized aluminum. In fresh
water I would suspect that it would do even better. Woody Wax is amazing stuff
that truly is good for anything. I use it in all my automotive fuse boxes
because it keeps moisture out as well as lubricates electrical connections. I
have waxes entire boats with woody wax as well as being one of two waxes
designed for use on nonskid. It can be used on almost any metal with great
results. Because the anodized aluminum gets really beat up in the salt Woody
suggests using brass wool (like steel wool) to remove the mineral deposits. This
also may be necessary with the minerals you deal with. May want to make up a
spray bottle of vinegar and water to help break down the minerals. Again that
Boat Wax Plus is designed mainly for boats in fresh water use on the Colorado
River because of the problem that came about because of the hard water spots so
before mixing up your own brew of vinegar it may prove cost effective to try out
their spray that not only breaks down minerals but also protects with what they
call a Co-Polymer. Good luck with everything and hope to hear how things go!
Thanks for all of your help and have a fabulous
time in Antarctica- the adventure of a lifetime!
Wes
The 1500 polish is great with a rotary polisher and the Presta pad. If you get
Powerboat in May it tells you about the machines used. Using the 1500 polish
with a random orbital will take a long time if you have a lot of oxidation. A
good way to gauge how much oxidation you have is to take a ruler and hold it
up so you can see its reflection. If you can see the reflection that is good.
The more inches you can read in the reflection the less oxidation you have.
New boats may be 12 inches and light oxidation may be 4 inches. This varies
with different finishes and light conditions and it has been a long time since
i have done this. But if you can't read over 4 inches i would think about
going to a polish with a little more bite or a light compound. Presta also
makes an Ultra Cutting Crème Light which I have had luck with other than the
fact that it tends to gum up rotary polish pads. The harsher compound will
make the orbital action more effective and will clear up the finish quite a
bit. But, like I always say, error on the side of a lesser abrasive. I have
attached a picture of a sail boat i tested Ultra Cutting Crème Light on. You
can see in the reflection where I stopped and you can see how clear the
reflection is where I did polish.
For that polisher you must make sure it comes with, or get a "Velcro" type
backup pad so you can just stick on your pads. If you decide to get another
random orbital polisher they may last a year or two. I have gone through
dozens of them. They burn out or worse, fly apart. Polishes work differently
on every boat but one thing you can be sure of is that this polisher is good
for your boat, car, metals and even bathroom tubs and sinks.